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  1. Trailer Axles
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  3. 2000 lbs
  4. Universal Fit
  5. 4 on 4 Inch
  6. No Drop or Lift
Timbren Axle-Less Trailer Suspension w/ Idler Hubs - Standard Duty - No Drop - 4 on 4 - 2,000 lbs

Timbren Axle-Less Trailer Suspension w/ Idler Hubs - Standard Duty - No Drop - 4 on 4 - 2,000 lbs

Item # A20RS440
Our Price: $703.18
Trailer Axles
Shipping Weight: 68 lbs
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Get more clearance and a smoother ride. Built-in shock absorption limits rattle and bottoming out. E-Z Lube, standard-height spindle keeps your deck height the same. Fits any trailer frame width. Includes inner (L44649) and outer (L44649) bearings. Great Prices for the best trailer axles from Timbren. Timbren Axle-Less Trailer Suspension w/ Idler Hubs - Standard Duty - No Drop - 4 on 4 - 2,000 lbs part number A20RS440 can be ordered online at or call 1-800-940-8924 for expert service.
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Timbren Trailer Axles - A20RS440

  • 2000 lbs
  • Universal Fit
  • 4 on 4 Inch
  • No Drop or Lift
  • Rubber Spring Suspension
  • Idler Hubs
  • Timbren
  • Easy Lube Spindles

Get more clearance and a smoother ride. Built-in shock absorption limits rattle and bottoming out. E-Z Lube, standard-height spindle keeps your deck height the same. Fits any trailer frame width. Includes inner (L44649) and outer (L44649) bearings.


  • Delivers a smooth, stable, quiet ride - regardless of load size
    • Jounce springs absorb road shock and support trailer's load
    • Rebound springs minimize body roll, rattle, and bottoming out
    • Built-in camber and toe-in reduce wear on your trailer's tires
    • Units work independently - what affects one side of your trailer won't affect the other
  • Eliminates axle beam to increase ground clearance and fit any trailer frame width
    • System replaces 1 trailer axle and suspension components
    • 2 Separate units bolt directly to your trailer's frame
  • Designed for your on-road adventures
    • Strong steel construction is built to last
    • Black powder coat resists rust and corrosion
  • Keeps trailer deck height the same while increasing ground clearance
    • Standard-height spindle is built in
  • Includes idler hubs with bearings, races, and seals
  • Allows for simple bearing maintenance with built-in grease zerks


  • Application: single- and tandem-axle trailers that use regular tires
    • Tandem-axle trailers require 2 complete systems
    • Not recommended for triple-axle trailers
  • Quantity: 2 suspension units (with hubs)
  • Weight capacity: 2,000 lbs
  • Bolt pattern: 4 on 4"
  • Bolt hole diameter: 1/2"
  • Suspension travel: 2-7/16"
  • 3-Year limited warranty

Tire, Wheel, and Hub Compatibility

  • Tire size: 235/85R16 or smaller
  • Wheel diameter: 16" or smaller
  • Bearings (included)
    • Inner: L44649
    • Outer: L44649
  • Races (included)
    • Inner: L44610
    • Outer: L44610
  • Seal: 10-9 (included)
    • Inner diameter: 1.500"
    • Outer diameter: 1.987"

Note: This Axle-Less system requires crossbeam support. If your trailer frame doesn't have a crossmember in place, you can retrofit it with one, or you can add a support by running a piece of 2" x 2" steel tubing through the square holes cut into these units. You could also add a steel reinforcement bracket to the inside of the trailer frame.

Get more ground clearance and a more comfortable ride when you're towing with Timbren's Axle-Less trailer suspension. This suspension system provides great shock absorption to comfortably get you where you need to go and to protect your precious cargo as you travel - even on rough pavement. With 2 independently operating units, you'll get better handling when making tight turns. And because this system eliminates your axle and has standard-height spindles built in, you'll get more clearance without having to raise your deck height.

Timbren Axle-Less Suspension vs. Other Suspension Systems

There are many suspension options for your trailer or camper. So, what makes Timbren Axle-Less different?

Leaf Spring Example

Axle-Less systems are a definitive upgrade over traditional leaf springs, in part because they allow you to do away with your thru-axle, allowing for maximum clearance. As you've probably noticed, having a leaf spring suspension means that your axle will always hang at least a few inches below your trailer's frame, resulting in limited ground clearance. This may make it difficult to navigate rough roads.

In addition, while leaf springs do a great job of supporting an even load, they may cause your trailer to bounce and rattle when it's empty or to bottom out with a heavy load. And they don't offer any type of shock absorption for a smooth ride - unless you have upgrades built in. With Timbren's Axle-Less system, gone are the days of dealing with these annoyances - this suspension is designed for a quiet, balanced ride, whether your trailer's fully loaded or empty.

Torsion Axle Example

A torsion axle is a step up in terms of shock absorption, and it provides more clearance than a traditional, leaf spring suspension, but that crossbeam will still hang down some. And if your torsion axle gets damaged in any way, it can't be repaired - you'll have to replace the entire thing with a setup that matches your exact trailer frame width.

With the Axle-Less system from Timbren, you won't have a low-hanging axle beam to get in the way when you're driving on rough roads. The standard-height spindles on this setup will keep your deck height the same, so you'll get that extra clearance and still be able to easily load and unload your trailer. And the rubber springs and independent operation both combine to absorb shock and deliver a smooth, easy ride. In addition, the Axle-Less system can be easily maintained over time, and it will fit any trailer frame width, so you don't have to worry about potentially ordering the wrong size like you might with other systems.

Timbren Silent Ride Example

Another suspension upgrade on the market is Timbren's Silent Ride. This setup is a great option to reduce bounce and rattle because it has the same AEON rubber springs as the Axle-Less system. But the Silent Ride still requires an axle, so you won't get the same ground clearance or low deck height as you will with the Axle-Less suspension.

Timbren Axle-Less Suspension Parts

The Timbren Axle-Less suspension is designed with you in mind. All of the parts work together so you can tow your trailer comfortably - regardless of load size.

Timbren Axle-Less Suspension Parts Diagram

  1. The jounce spring supports the weight of your trailer and cargo. It easily absorbs road shock and is constructed of AEON heavy-duty, hollow rubber.
  2. The rebound spring delivers a smooth, stable ride - regardless of how much cargo is on the trailer. It controls the movement of the jounce spring to minimize trailer body roll, bounce, rattle, and bottoming out.
  3. The trailing arm with integrated hanger attaches the suspension to the side and bottom of the trailer frame.
  4. The control arm carries the spindle and the hub. It pivots on strong, long-lasting polyurethane bushings that never require lubrication.
  5. The E-Z Lube spindle is simple to grease. If damaged, it can be removed and replaced, saving you both time and money compared to a traditional axle.
  6. The built-in hole accepts 2" x 2" steel tubing (not included) to add support to your trailer's frame. The tubing sits higher than a trailer axle, providing additional ground clearance.

Installing the Timbren Axle-Less Suspension

Measuring Diagram

The first step in installing the Timbren Axle-Less suspension is to make sure that the mounting points for each unit are directly across from each other. The easiest way to measure this is to mark the desired mounting points on your trailer's frame. Then measure the distance between these points and the center of your trailer coupler. These measurements (A and B) need to be within 1/8" to keep your trailer frame square.

Once you have your mounting points lined up, you'll be ready to install the system. Drill 3 holes into your trailer frame at the desired mounting points. Then bolt each unit to the frame with Grade 5, 1/2" bolts (not included).

Keep Your Trailer Frame Square

Because Timbren's Axle-Less system eliminates your trailer's thru-axle, you'll have to find another way to get the crossbeam support that keeps your trailer frame square. You have a few different options to do this depending on your application and how much fabricating you're comfortable doing.

Crossmember Installation

If you're building a trailer, the best option is to begin building with the Timbren Axle-Less in mind and include a crossmember where you want to install the units on your frame. You can also retrofit an existing trailer with a crossmember.

Steel Tubing Installation

If you don't have a crossmember where you want to install the Axle-Less system (and you don't want to add one), pick up a section of 2" x 2" steel tubing from a nearby weld shop. This tubing will serve as a support to keep your trailer square. It will hang only about an inch down from your trailer frame, providing more clearance than a thru-axle.

After you've mounted both of the units to your frame, you'll need to drill 3 holes into the steel tubing and into the built-in, square holes. Then, insert the tubing through the holes and secure it with 3 bolts (not included) on each side.

Reinforcement Bracket Installation

The last option is to fabricate a reinforcement bracket that can be attached to the inside of your trailer frame and to the Axle-Less suspension. It may be a little harder to fabricate a compatible bracket than to mount steel tubing, but you may get additional clearance with this method.

Dimensions of the Timbren Axle-Less Suspension

The following diagrams show measurements taken on the Timbren Axle-Less suspension system without hubs.

Axle-Less dimensions front view

11-3/8" 13-13/16" 1" 5" 3-7/8" 3-3/4"

Axle-Less dimensions top view

4-5/8" 4-7/8" 3-7/8" 3-3/4" 3-1/8"

ASR2000S01 Axleless Trailer Suspension System by Timbren - Standard Height Spindle - 4 on 4" Hubs - 2,000 lbs

88440-2 Timbren Idler Hub Assemblies - 1/2" Studs - Quantity 2

Customer Reviews

Timbren Axle-Less Trailer Suspension w/ Idler Hubs - Standard Duty - No Drop - 4 on 4 - 2,000 lbs - A20RS440

Average Customer Rating:  4.6 out of 5 stars   (293 Customer Reviews)

Get more clearance and a smoother ride. Built-in shock absorption limits rattle and bottoming out. E-Z Lube, standard-height spindle keeps your deck height the same. Fits any trailer frame width. Includes inner (L44649) and outer (L44649) bearings.


I used these parts to build a motorcycle trailer. (See attached pictures) It pulls and handles like a dream. The Atwood coupler and the Timbren axle-less suspension are both very well designed and of high quality manufacture. I would recommend these parts to anyone.



I love this suspension. Even empty, the trailer huggs the road and doesnt bounce around. Its smooth as silk when loaded.


The parts and prices are great but really for me was Kate Answering my questions and following up later to make sure everything was fine. Hands down best customer service experience I have ever had I don’t see taking my business anywhere else.



This was the best upgrade I’ve made to just about anything really, any trailers I buy in the future will get the timbren suspension.


excellent product, works so well. needed to lower the motorcycle trailer, and a standard axle was going to place the height of the trailer bed too high. the ride is awesome and the install was simple.

i ordered on a tuesday night and had thursday afternoon. great service

C M.


excellent- highly recomend, needed to lower height of motorcycle trailer and increase width so can easily carry three motos now.... over 4500 lbs !! handles great, no issues directions and install was a breeze !


Everything was as advertised! Fast shipping and well packaged! And good quality.
And the best part, they respond very fast to my emails!! very nice! Don't think all be using my local retailers anymore.


easy to install, works well.


Very nice product and fast shipping, good price


great customer support and help, wonderful advice. fast shipping and the best - great value for the dollar




The axle-less suspension worked very well for my boat trailer. The suspension was easy to attach to the trailer frame and provided a lower profile than the traditional leaf spring and axle system.


The service from etrailer has been great! They have been very helpful through the entire purchasing process. My one star is due to the quality of the product. First, for something as heavy duty as these are, you’d expect better packaging. On arrival, one of the spindles was sticking out of the box and the hand holds were torn on one of the other boxes. I was a little worried what I might find in the damaged box but everything seems to be intact. The disappointing part is the quality of the welds. For the price you are spending on these, I would expect a higher quality of fabrication. There is undercut in the welds that hold the three support plates together and big ol sloppy welds every where else. Unsure of what to do as my trailer has been designed around this suspension system.


Very smooth pull. I'm very impressed on how the trailer pulls. My traditional axle trailer seemed to bounce a lot on the highway which made a lot of noise, but with the Timbren Axle-less that I installed on a new trailer, the trailer is so smooth and way less noise.
Great product.


Installed the Timbren Axle-less suspension a little over a year ago and approximately 5000 miles ago. I have been extremely satisfied with the installation and performance thus far and have had no issues. I also chose to install an optional crossmember for more strength using a 1/4" thick piece of 2x3 steel. I had to increase the weight capacity of my campers suspension due to renovating the interior completely and adding more weight. I also strengthened the frame to accommodate the extra weight. In addition to installing the Timbren 5200LB system I installed new 12" electric brakes and upgraded to 225/75R15 tires with E load range rating.


Installed the Timbren Axle-less suspension a little over a year ago and approximately 5000 miles ago. I have been extremely satisfied with the installation and performance thus far and have had no issues. I also chose to install an optional crossmember for more strength using a 1/4" thick piece of 2x3 steel. I had to increase the weight capacity of my campers suspension due to renovating the interior completely and adding more weight. I also strengthened the frame to accommodate the extra weight. In addition to installing the Timbren 5200LB system I installed new 12" electric brakes and upgraded to 225/75R15 tires with E load range rating.


The trailer rides great down the road and no more worries about saltwater and rusty leaf springs. Not a cheap option but I’m very happy with the setup. When installing, just be sure to measure accurately and have sharp drill bits. A drill press type of guide also helps ensure correct drilling angles. The first picture is of a mounting gusset a local welding shop made. One is needed for each side and necessary to provide needed mounting strength-at least on my trailer frame. Pics 2 and 3 show the mounted suspension on one side of the trailer. Pic 4 shows the suspension on one side of the trailer with the axle attached and a separately purchased disc brake assembly mounted on it. Finally, pic 5 shows a 2” box channel between both suspension assemblies. Independent suspensions would have been nice, but I wanted to ensure trailer rigidity was maintained. So, after one year, so far, so good. It’s all smooth sailing down the highway.


Incredible system. Handled our Overland trek through Colorado and Moab. These axles on our 1917 Ford bed ran multiple Jeep Badge of Honor trails. The suspension handled flawlessly. Handles off camber rocks and drop offs smoothly. We ran the 4 inch lift and off road offset to fit the factory Jeep wheels.


Five star. shipping was slow. Product was great 14 K 14 plies under 2000 pounds independent suspension. Low fast and sassy. Yep that’s how I build them.


Purchased 2 sets of the Timbren 1200 Axle-less systems for upgrading the suspension on an older 30' ft glider trailer. Single axle with small (13") tires made towing tough due to porpoising, dragging on drive entrances do to poor flotation; also German made and metric, no repair parts. GVW 2000 lbs equated to bouncy ride.

Dual sets now allow the trailer to ride over bumps and sharp inclines easily, smoothly, little bounce on country roads; porpoising is history. My glider now rides securely, safely, quietly.

Install time 4 1/2 hours (includes head-scratching). Results are outstanding, units are totally solid. Recommend the square tube interconnect, easy and quick - trailer frame was on the light side, so a precautionary fix. Clean look underneath.

Ordered 5 wheels w/tires, very nice.

Helpful neighbor so impressed he ordered a HD single set for his new DIY snowmobile trailer.

Customer satisfaction 100%, from phone order, online support, product information, immediate shipping, install instructions, followup... HIGHLY RECOMMENDED!


Trailer suspension and disk brake performance is outstanding big big difference over leaf spring and electric drum brakes.
Installation required modifications to the frame to monut the timbren suspension


I put these on an off-road trailer build. They have been fantastic! I've done many miles and they held up great. Highly recommend.


I used these axles in a different way than most would. I needed a trailer that was small, could handle tight switch-backs, carry 600 lbs and be light. I had this idea and as a retired design engineer I saw a great possibility in this axle. I have made four of these trailers now, one as a camp trailer, 2 for trail work for State Parks and one as a utility trailer.


I rebuilt a 4 x 8 trailer using the Timbren Axle-Less Trailer Leaf Spring Suspension and it works great. I would recommend it to others.


They have more pros than cons, but the second set I bought broke the flat plate that holds the spindle at about 8 months. The steel quality seemed less than I would expect since it basically peeled it back like a pop can as you can see in the pictures. Otherwise I like the clearance and ride. They last 2-3 years where the torsion axles I replaced would wear out in 4 months after driving down rough gravel roads. There is a grade zerk on the underside which I didn't realize until I bought the second set. That would have helped the first set last longer had I known about it.


Timbren saved our RV road trip! The leafs on the axle on our 2018 Jayco TT came apart while driving in Maryland. We tried going to the manufacturer, but they were useless. Going to a RV mechanic meant being grounded for at least 2 months. Then we found Timbren. With the help of Timbren's excellent staff we purchased axle-less system through etrailer, who made sure we got as quick as possible. It came ahead of schedule, my husband installed the Timbren system and we were back on the road! The axle-less system is better than the original manufacturers. If you plan on taking your RV or TT farther than 100 miles GET THIS INSTALLED and get it through etrailer.


These units install easily, are well made, and perform great! The trailer doesn't bounce around like you see a lot of trailers do while traveling down a bumpy road. I traveled some unpaved roads with no issues. I am certainly glad I went axleless. I installed with 15" tires. Problem is I didn't go big enough.

I intended to install on an existing trailer that I had. Changed my mind and built a new trailer. The new trailer came in heavier than I had planned. 2k pound capacity is now too small. I have to watch what I load the trailer with so I don't over load the suspension. I intend on buying the 3500 pound units when I have the money.

Show More Reviews

See what our Experts say about this Timbren Trailer Axles

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    We don't have an axle compatible with center of spring to center of spring dimension of 42 inches. We do however have an axle-less system that will work. I recommend the Timbren Axle-Less Trailer Suspension System with Hubs - 4 on 4 - Regular Tires - 1,200 lbs # A12RS440 or the 2,000 lb capacity system # A20RS440. This will replace your leaf spring suspension and give you the 4-on-4 idler hubs. It will bolt directly to your trailer frame and give you greater ground clearance because...
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  • Amount of Spring Deflection of Timbren Alxe-Less Suspension # A20RS440
    You are correct, the Aeon spring does indeed function as a dampener, and should not need additional dampening. Each unit is rated at a 1000 lb capacity, so two sets or four units would provide a 4000 lb capacity. The 2-5/8 inch dimension shown is the static position, but this exact dimension will depend on the construction of your trailer and how heavy it is. The engineering folks at Timbren tell me that the springs are capable of 2-1/2 inches of travel or deflection.
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  • Is the Timbren Axle-Less Trailer Suspension System a Good Choice for a Motorcycle Trailer
    The Timbren suspension system, like # A20RS440, is designed to be toe-in when there is no load on it. So when the load is placed on it it will push the tire out so that it is riding straight on the ground. Provided the trailer is not overloaded and the tires are trailer tires and inflated to the maximum psi as indicated on the tire, then you should not see excessive wear and get more than just a few thousand miles out of a set. A regular axle has a bow in it. That bow should be pointed...
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  • Wanting a Replacement Axel that Measures 46-5/8 Inches From Spring Mount to Spring Mount
    I have a solution for you, but none of the straight axles with a 2,000 lbs capacity that we carry have the 46-5/8 inches spring mount to mount measurement. I recommend that you take a look at the Timbren Axle-Less Trailer Suspension System, # A20RS440. With the Timbren system you will do away with the single straight axle and open up your under the trailer clearance. Also, the Timbren design with its two separate axles will give you a trailer with an independent suspension which will...
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  • What Wall Thickness Should Be Used For Square Tubing To Add Support For Timbren Axle-Less System
    I called my contact at Timbren about the Axle-Less Trailer Suspension System with Hubs, part # A20RS440. I have attached a photo of a # A20RS440. The arrow on the photo is pointing to the 2 inch x 2 inch hole that is designed to be used to add additional support if needed. They told me that you should use 1/4 inch thick walls for the 2 x 2 channel.
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  • Replacement Axle Kit Options with 4-on-4 Idler Hubs
    The axles we offer that have 48-inch-spaced spring seats and 4-on-4 idler hubs are all for 2000- and 2200-lb-rated axles. Both kits are shown on the linked page. These have a 60-inch hub face spacing and we offer both standard and EZ-Lube versions. Both kits come complete with the axle, spindles, hubs, bearings, races, seals, grease, grease caps and lug nuts. Please refer to the linked video for more details. We also offer axle-less trailer suspension kits from Timbren that can be a...
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  • Does Timbren Axle-Less System Include Drive And Passenger Side
    Yes, when you purchase the Timbren Axle-Less Trailer Suspension System like part # A20RS440 both sides are included in the package. This system has a 2000-lb weight capacity and includes the EZ Lube spindles with the bearings, races, and seals.
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  • How Well Do Timbren Axle Less Systems Work as Replacement for Pop Up Campers
    Yes, a Timbren Axle Less kit like part # A20RS440 would work well on your pop up camper trailer. These are similar to torsion style axles which are commonly found on pop ups like yours. This specific kit is a 2,000 lb axle with hubs that have a 4 on 4 inch bolt pattern which is a very popular pattern on campers as well. If your wheels instead have a 5 on 4-1/2 inch bolt pattern you'd want the part # A20RS545. These kits have the advantage of giving the trailer better ground clearance...
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  • Recommended Replacement Axle for Custom Width Trailer
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  • Recommended Replacement for 75 inch Axle with 61 Inch Frame
    For your Adams Drift Boat Trailer, the dimensions you gave will work only with our Timbren Axle-Less Trailer Suspension System with Hubs - 5 on 4-1/2 bolt pattern # A20RS545 or 4 on 4 inch bolt pattern # A20RS440. Both these systems will bolt directly to your trailer frame and have the integrated rubber spring for suspension. They will fit any frame width and require a 2 inch square bar (not included) to fit into the integrated holes for support. They will give you more ground clearance...
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  • Recommended Axle Replacement for Jayco Eagle 12 UDK
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  • Recommended Trailer Axle for 2006 Triton XT Trailer
    We do sell complete axle systems with hubs, but I need more information. If you have torsion axles, then I recommend the Timbren Axle-Less Trailer Suspension System w Hubs like # A20RS545 or # A20RS440 for a 4 bolt hub as a simple bolt on replacement. These come in various weight capacities. If you have round through axles, then I need to know what the face to face measurement is, what the spring seat to spring seat measurement is on center, and what the GVWR of your trailer is.
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  • Can a Timbren Suspension System Be Installed Backwards
    I spoke to my contact at Timbren and they stated that they designed and tested their Timbren Axle-Less systems like the part # A20RS440 with the intention of it being a trailing arm suspension. Turning it around would change some of the dynamics but it could be possible that it could still work although not recommended. They advised against it since it has never been tested.
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  • Replacement Hub and Axle for 2007 Triton LT Trailer
    For your replacement axle and hubs, I recommend the Timbren Axle-Less Trailer Suspension System with Hubs - 5 on 4-1/2 - Regular Tires - 2,000 lbs # A20RS545 or the 4 on 4 inch hubs of the # A20RS440. These replacements contain Aeon rubber suspension and have EZ Lube spindles for easy maintenance. They do require a 2 inch square tube (not included) to join the assemblies utilizing the integrated holes. This would be a great upgrade for you. If you just want to replace the hubs, it...
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  • Recommended Replacement Axle System to Replace Torsion Axle on Snowmobile Trailer
    We don't currently carry any torsion axles. You also have a unique frame width, so I have an alternative solution for you. I recommend the Timbren Axle-Less Trailer Suspension System with Hubs - 5 on 4-1/2 - Regular Tires - 2,000 lbs # A20RS545 or the # A20RS440 with 4 on 4 inch bolt pattern. These assemblies will mount directly to your frame and then you will use a 2 inch square bar (not included) cut to length between the assemblies. If you are interested in a higher capacity or in...
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  • Upgrading Axles On Harbor Freight Trailer To Use L44649 Wheel Bearings
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  • Replacement Axle Option For a 2006 Yacht Club Trailer With 80" Wide Frame and 91" Hub Face
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  • Replacement Axle and Hubs for Small Boat Trailer that Used Super Lube Hubs
    We don't currently carry Tie Down products, but based on my research it looks like the only difference between the Super Lube Hubs and a standard trailer hub from any other manufacturer is that there is a grease fitting built right into the hub itself. This simply allows you to easily add grease to the hub and bearings for regular maintenance. As long as you make sure the hub uses bearings that will fit your trailer spindle, there is no reason you couldn't use a Super Lube Hub on a different...
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  • Replacement Axle and Tire/Wheel Combo for 1969 Boat Trailer with 5.70-8 Tires
    If the axle, spindle, and hub is original on your 1969 boat trailer then it likely has an outdated bolt pattern since you're not measuring 4" across center to center, and is why you're having issues finding something that works. Since it's unlikely that you'll find something compatible it would be easiest to replace the axle and go from there. We have some standard fitments in the linked selection but you also might be interested in our Timbren Axle-Less Trailer Suspension kits like part...
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  • Replacement Axle For a Small Boat Trailer With an Overall Length of 54
    While we do not have a traditional axle we do have the Timbren Axle-Less Trailer Suspension # A20RS440. This is designed as an axle replacement system which also replaces the suspension. This will mount to the frame rails and positions the hub face 4-7/8" from the frame and the center of the axle tube is 3-7/8" below the frame. The system is rated for 2,000lbs. If you need different weight capacity or height please let me know and I can see what system we might have as a replacement. Otherwise...
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